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Raised patio ideas to take your garden to another level, A renovation bargain? If so is there any benefit or harm in adding a layer of rigid insulation between the OSB deck and TPO roofing? Q. If 6 inches of rigid foam is enough to get you to your minimum code requirements for R-value, then that's the way to go. "If we go ahead with a properly insulated unvented roof, we dont need to ensure that the ceiling/area between ceiling and decking is insulated/perfectly sealed to moisture?". You don't have to build interior soffits. moving forward with the unvented roof assembly These openings will not provide the ventilation you seek. The reason that the recommendations differ for roofs is that rafters are usually deeper than studs. Wear goggles, a face mask and gloves to prevent injury. And the effect it will have on your energy bills depends on what youre replacing and how big your roof is. Assuming that you get your spray foam/fiberglass sandwich in the right order, either of the two approaches you listed will work. (N.B. Annual maintenance evaluations identified a number of buildings on the campus with leaking roofs. There is venting on the top of the roof using dog house type vents but only enough for a small percentage of the total roof space (per code since this is the only ventilation..). It is not recommended for unvented cathedral ceilings because of the risk of moisture problems and rot. If you take this advice, make sure to seal up any soffit vents with closed-cell spray foam as well. So, if you do not know how to insulate a flat room from the inside using these materials, it is best to consult with a roofing professional for expert advice on what to use. If you don't want the doghouse, build an unvented roof. Fixing that problem at this point is expensive, unfortunately. Here's how the code reads: "In addition to the air-permeable insulation installed directly below the structural sheathing, rigid board or sheet insulation shall be installed directly above the structural roof sheathing as specified in Table R806.5 for condensation control.". DIY Repair of an Asphalt Shingle Roof - Extreme How To If you don't want to install rigid foam on the exterior side of your roof sheathing, the other possible solution is to rip everything out, working from the interior, and then to install closed-cell spray foam from the interior, against the underside of the roof sheathing. In the future, would there be a problem with adding more vapor permeable insulation to the underside of the deck? I have a question about insulating a roof in Hawaii -- we don't get temperatures below 75, humidity is moderate; so, wondering how much applies in our environment. Better yet, just choose closed-cell spray foam. When insulating the pitched part of the roof it is advised to insulate between the rafters first as that provides the most room for insulation without reducing the living area. but I am concerned that there is no drying potential and any roof leak will probably go unnoticed.thoughts?.thanks. Is there a potential for trapped moisture damage to the sheathing due to resistance to drying either out or in? photo: Peter Yost1. From what I understand the best option might be the insulation with rigid foam on top of the sheating.but there is still some years left on the flat roof, I am planning to put the insulation on top of the sheating while putting on a new flat roof with new sheating My questions are: What is the best and most cost effective, interim (5-7 years) insulation until I will put the new roof on? What are the "code" words I should use if my inspector questions this retrofit. Drying potential is more important to design in than a thermal control layer because a thermal bridge not involving air leakage may not involve condensation or, if it does, it can be managed or corrected from the interior. Pitched roof insulation is an affordable and energy efficient solution for your project or refurbishment. Response to Michael Quinn I will definitely look at moving the insulated 6" flex supply ducts out of the truss bays but the uninsulated (so far) metal trunk and return ducts are in a soffit under/attached to the bottom of the trusses in 3 small rooms. Q. Working from above, you can use a Sawzall to cut through the sheathing that needs to be removed, along with the associated glued-on foam insulation, as long as you are careful not to saw through the rafters or truss chords. Insulation of a pitched roof from inside - YouTube Antonio, You wrote that the house originally had 2 inches of rockwool -- again, I'm assuming that the insulation was installed on top of the ceiling -- and that you have installed "additional insulation." 6. When it comes to venting this type of roof assembly, I stand by the advice given in the article. A. Our home is a new build from 2014 and we have had small water stains on our ceiling (the last 2 winters) that we have pointed out to be caused by condensation after careful monitoring/observation. What do you think? Because of all the issues it solves, the extra cost is warranted. I sure hope that nobody is still building "vented flat roofs" nowadays. continually seeks to improve the value it provides, Vapor moving through materials that allow drying to the exterior, where the world at large takes away that moisture without notice. They also omitted major contributors to vapor movement - wind and thermal cycling. So with R6 polyiso and 1" of ccSPF (R6+) on the underside of roof deck you would have adequate dew point control for R28 batts under the roof deck in that section. Some fixed Velux ones seem a good option. I've heard too many reports of SIP failures -- SIPs with rotten OSB at the seams, especially near the roof ridge -- to advocate installing a SIP roof in a cold climate without ventilation channels above the SIPs. All of this is explained in my article, Calculating the Minimum Thickness of Rigid Foam Sheathing. The usual method for creating such a ventilation channel is to install 2x4s on the flat, 16 inches o.c. Plan your job carefully. Is my concern valid? We have a family home in the Florida Keys (Zone 1) that had damage with the latest hurricane and one section of roof was redone in the old tar and gravel method. The roof itself is also being replaced (with white TPO), so we have full access from the exterior to the attic space below. But I'm concerned because the roofing membrane (TPO or EPDM) is a vapor barrier on top of the sheathing, and the spray insulation is a vapor barrier on the underside. Either choice would be an improvement over what you have, but neither choice would meet minimum code requirements. In a classic ventilated attic, wind-washing does slightly degrade the performance of the insulation near the soffit vents -- especially if the insulation is fiberglass, and especially if there is no wind-washing dam. It must be remembered that just because a roof space is insulated and the floor boarded, it does not mean that the room can Always take the necessary precautions and follow the stated advice and instructions. "If I have them pack the ceiling/roof cavity with fiberglass, do I still need to spray foam inside, around the short walls of my attic?". The best approach would be to cover the top side of the old roofing with closed-cell spray polyurethane foam -- as thick a layer as you can afford. 2) 6.5" R22 batts (e.g. Apologies if you have already answered similar questions--I'm clearly not a good sleuth as I've just spent the past 2 hours looking without finding anything. Martin. Another difference between insulating a flat roof and insulating a pitched roof is the type of equipment youll need. 2 Install baffles on vents. Knowing how to insulate a flat roof from the inside is a skill you can learn for a DIY insulation process. The #15 felt example used in that first link isn't commonly used for roofs ( #30 felt is), but is a common underlayment for WALLS. Not up to code (R30), of course, and not as energy-efficient, but up until now (for 50 years) there was essentially no insulation in the ceiling at all (just 3/4" acoustic ceiling tiles), so R14 would be better than before. 3.5"Roxul R15 ComfortBatts (atop furring strips). The attic is "vented". Water moves, and water does tricky things. But I might not reach R-30.. Reponse to Sascha Zerbin We must come up with a vented system. If not, how can we adjust it to make it reasonable? They do write "industry standard 15-lb. In Climate Zone 4, the 2009 International Residential Code calls for a minimum of R-38 ceiling insulation, not R-30. 2) Cellulose insulation was installed in one single case. He recommends installing loose-fill fiberglass insulation to fill the attic space to a depth of about 12" (or to the full height of the attic where that is less than 12"). Moving ducts at this stage can certainly be tricky. The basic problem is that your foam layers aren't thick enough to keep the first condensing surface above the dew point during the winter. Discover ROCKWOOL Pitched Roof Insulation for the ultimate in thermal, acoustic and fire performance solutions. Do not use a hammer and nails to fix the battens, the vibrations through the roof may cause damage to the roof covering especially where the roof is old - either use screwdriver and screws or a nail gun. Q. The only problem with this is I would have to pay for a new roof and still remove the gyprock to remove the mold. Insulate with stone wool for the future. Those are the easy cases. Yes, air sealing the ceiling plane is always a good idea. So you are suggesting I use open cell sf under the whole front half of the roof as well - in stead of Fiber - to reach my total R value of R49? By using our website and our services, you agree to our use of cookies as described in our. open air bricks at the bottom) to allow the air to move. Install underlay above the rafters. You don't want to install polyiso between your rafters. Martin, Thank you kindly for Be sure to measure twice and cut once. Obviously, heat will be lost through the rafters at a faster rate than it is lost through the insulation. Because codes dont permit air-permeable insulation to be installed in contact with the roof sheathing unless the sheathing is covered with a layer of rigid or closed-cell spray foam, not all code authorities accept Hulstrunks retrofit insulation method, so check with your local code inspector before attempting this technique. If I go with a green roof as ballast, this gets even trickier as my dirt will wash off for sure? Is there a benefit to one or the other? Truss Publications, Inc. All rights reserved. I shared the details of my house because the multiple references to attic size tiny attic and cramped attic spaces made me wonder if my larger attic volume changed the equation in any way. In hot, dry areas, youll tend to find flat or gently sloping roofs. So, with all this in mind, including how difficult and costly I think it would be to add insulation between the roof and ceiling, my understanding after reading this and some of your other articles is that I should not proceed with the poly-iso unless Im willing to add 9 of it (which I surmised from the article "How to Install Rigid Foam on Top of Roof Sheathing"). But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Of course, whether you have a flat roof or a pitched roof, if you find damage, youll want to repair it before you begin installing insulation. Installing the air-barrier on the interior side of the 16" trusses it leaves a huge bypass/convection channel behind the air barrier, potentially thwarting it's function if it ever develops an air leak. How to Build an Insulated Cathedral Ceiling, How to Install Rigid Foam On Top of Roof Sheathing, Hi, How To Insulate A Flat Roof From The Inside - homedude Our ceiling (over half the home) is leaky, with can lighting This is a topic for a blog I'm writing now, but the brief answer is, "This type of roof is built all the time, and won't be problematic, as long as the roof sheathing is dry on the day that the spray foam contractor installs the spray foam.". The roof is vented throughout - a continuous saw-fit vent runs down the length of the low ends of the roof and this connects to each of the cavities in the vaulted ceiling areas as well as to the small attics that exist. This will require demolition of the ceiling. of room between the top-floor ceiling and the roof sheathing. (For more information, see this article: "Combining Exterior Rigid Foam With Fluffy Insulation."). How to Insulate your Roof | Fuel Poverty - YouTube Another difference between insulating a steeply peaked roof and a flat roof involves venting. Our questions: should we be wary of creating dead air space in the attic? al., I'm benefiting from the good discussion on this page. Read on to learn more. Do we get enough heat in Hawaii that the foam insulation would need to be vented? How far should the rigid foam extend past the wall elevation I'm sorry that you face significant expenses, but you have (1) moldy roof sheathing, (2) "plenty of ice damming," (3) ducts in your attic that leak heat and contribute to ice dams, (4) a leaky ceiling (with "many ceiling penetrations -- vents and lights, etc."). The current assembly from the exterior side to the interior is as follows: 60mil Gray TPO over OSB over tapered polyiso then OSB roof sheathing over 14" I joists. I will absolutely take that under advisement. ft. of attic floor space. The current ceiling has R21 High Density glasswool batts between the 2 x 6 joist and it has drywall below. The complete source for building, designing, and remodeling green homes. climate, at least 24 in.) If that's the case option 3 seems more desireable- keep the foam as is and decrease the batt. As noise pollution continues to become a major problem in towns and cities1, properly insulated pitched roofs can also help to create a peaceful living environment. Moved into a recently constructed house in northern american climate with a 2 % roof sloping to a rear gutter . I do not know whether this insulation is in direct contact with the sheathing. Q. Stagger the horizontal joins. I thought an interior vapor barrier might be a bad option, especially with a TPO roof membrane; where would any moisture escape? How to insulate a loft or roof: install insulation and "If I go the route of spraying closed cell foam onto my roof deck from inside - does it matter how thick the application will be?". "Do I need to air seal my ceiling plane if I go the route of converting to a 'warm roof'? I'm Paul. Kyle, However, attic insulation isn't just about heating. We understand its extremely labor intensive, but at this point its cost and damage-control for us. http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-102-understanding-attic-ventilation, https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/community/forum/general-questions/21111/using-polyisocyanurate-insulation-exterior-home, https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/how-build-insulated-cathedral-ceiling, https://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/insulation/insulation-panels/owens-corning-reg-foamular-reg-extruded-polystyrene-insulation-4-x-4-x-8-r-20/p-1444450493765.htm, https://dcpd6wotaa0mb.cloudfront.net/mdms/dms/EIS/43522/43522-FOAMULAR-250-XPS-Insulation-Product-Data-Sheet.pdf, "Combining Exterior Rigid Foam With Fluffy Insulation. The drawings didn't show their locations (only the net vent area required). You didn't tell us whether you are doing that. It's a lot of extra money, but if there's a good chance it would reduce condensation, we may bite the bullet. Examine the entire underside of the roof before you begin. If you install a combination of closed-cell foam and vapor-permeable insulation, you also need to be sure that the foam is thick enough to keep the roof sheathing (or the lower surface of the foam insulation) above the dew point during the winter. I assume this was done to make the house look more "stick-built". I have a question regarding adding roof insulation to an older modular home in northern Canada, zone 8. Q. 2500 sqft ft roof. This type of roof is common in urban areas (for example, on triple-deckers in Boston and row houses in Philadelphia), as well as in the Southwest. Whats a low-slope roof? The builder wants to put fiberglass bats between the truss bays to get to r 38 total. Instead, the middle of the roof has a small hut atop that contains two air handlers and ductwork. Obviously I don't want to encounter this problem again, but it got me thinking not only about the cause, but how to reduce our very high heating bills. I can't locate anything, except some vague cathedral ceiling graphic which seems to indicate about a 2% efficiency loss, but I don't know where that number came from. We're looking at a low slope/ flat roof where we don't have enough parapet height to add 5" (R-20) min. Any input would be much appreciated. Two inches of closed-cell spray foam would be R-13, and 3 inches would be about R-19. Radiant barrier - TECHSHIELD on top of furring strips Learn how your comment data is processed. Thanks Martin..as architects we are tasked with having to balance the demands of the client, the market, the planning and development dept, the building codes and a host of other factors that do not always align to allow us to take the path of least resistance. There is currently batt insulation of unknown R value (put probably 10) between the ceiling and this first roof. When upgrading the insulation in an existing pitched roof, ensure all the pipes and the cold water storage tank are properly insulated to avoid the risks of freezing. 2- nix the ridge vent that runs the length of the roof and use cupolas instead? If so, your choices in materials and methods of installation will differ from those used for a simple storage space. Some observations that were not publishable We are trying to decide on the best approach to retrofit insulation in a 1930s Spanish-style home with a low-slope roof in climate zone 3 (southern California). Rigid insulation boards can be cut to size and fitted either between joists or . 2 - As the article p0ints out: ventilating low-slope roofs is difficult and ineffective. John, Thank you for replying right away, Martin. All we can do is approach the final design with intelligence so that the final built environment does not become a drain on the end user and a black-eye and potential law suit for the design/development team..thanks for contributing to the brain trust best way to insulate a converted attic with a flat roof All these materials have their own pros and cons. ), Correct on #2, the 'attic foil' is a perforated radiant barrier. Here are some pictures. In terms of venting, I dont think there are roof vents, other than those associated with plumbing (see picture). No. At the edges, it transitions to plates that are installed in plane with ceiling strapping.

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